The pear of anguish in use

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The pear of anguish in use

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Going back to a previous comment, and I am sure I will get banned for using this in probably the wrong thread, but chastity belts were real, however, they were not placed upon girls by knights who were going away to war.

No, they were used by the women themselves to stop themselves getting sexually assaulted by men. Admittedly they came later in the middle ages and were named differently but in France and the rest of Europe they were still used up until the s.

I am not doing original research. As a matter of fact I am doing no research at all. Nor, I might add, is anyone else here.

Given I do not accept this device exists I wouldn't be expected to do any research would I? The bottom line is that tis is an encyclopedia.

If there is no evidence that this device was ever used this webpage ought not to exist. Wikipedia is not the place for original research, but it is a place where you should cite your sources.

I have not seen any sources yet, just a shady website. If this is invention, and it looks like it to me, the page needs to be changed.

Listen, if you don't want to contribute then why complain. This is an encyclopedia that everyone helps to edit.

Since everyone seems to be resorting to personal abuse of Lao Wai , I think I'll chime in to back him up here. We need some proper references for this, the "references" offered so far are very poor quality.

People who wish to write articles on the history of mediaeval torture should be aware that pretty well all secondary sources prior to the mids, and most populist ones even after that, are gravely suspect and likely to be seriously contaminated with 19th century fictions.

See Histoire de l'Inquisition en France for a classic example of this. And this taste for prurient fictions included physical objects as well as tales; many chastity belts in museums have been shown to be nineteenth century fakes, and not a single rack anywhere is believed to be authentic.

So saying you have a photograph from a museum is not, by itself, a very strong argument. Some other potential interpretations include, but are not necessarily limited to:.

Further, as Lao Wai pointed out, some of the claims made are really rather suspect. For example, the listed punishments do not jibe with other sources, where the punishment for sodomy from after the thirteenth century is not mutilation but death, while the usual punishment for procuring an abortion was "merely" excommunication.

Therefore I do not think it is at all unreasonable to request some properly documented evidence for the claims made in the article.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not a catholic. Once the seed of doubt was raised I re-examined the device itself, and am now thouroughly convinced it is a tool of some sort.

I agree that it appears to be seventeenth century at the earliest. I doubt that it is a medical device for some of the same reasons that I have come to doubt it is a device of torture.

Surely the pear shape would be conducive to insertion into a human orifice, but only if the taper was the other way arround.

The points at the end also make me doubt it is any sort of medical device, and seem to be entirely in the wrong place for a torture device as well.

The points are meant to hold something, and the relatively smooth "pear" sections are meant to strech something into a smooth rounded shape- leather perhaps.

To venture a guess, this device is used to make a pouch of some sort. I've never contributed before, hope I have done it correctly - Mythopoetic. Given that the questions do not seem to have been answered, and the danger of Wikipedia becoming a major source of disinformation, I have taken the liberty to remove the quetionable text from the article, and adding a warning that the device may have had other uses.

The Pear of Anguish is a torture instrument shaped like a pear , which was inserted in the victim's mouth, rectum or vagina. Upon insertion, the handle was turned, causing the leaves to slowly separate causing extreme pain and mutilation to the victim.

The insertion of the pear was dependent on the crime the victim was accused of; while slanderers and blasphemers would have their mouths mutilated, homosexuals would suffer the same fate on their anuses.

It would also be used on the vaginas of women who had induced a miscarriage , or been accused of witchcraft or adultery. The pronged ends of each lobe ensured maximum damage as they tore into the throat, cervix or rupturing other tissues.

I agree that the vivid details of this description strongly suggest that all this "information" is merely the product of someone's sick imagination.

I propose that we do not put any of this back into the article before someone provides some really indisputable evidence not just statements from some modern "authority".

I agree it needs to be clear that it is not definite I propose that we update the article to reflect facts 1 and 2, and leave fact 3 out as non-notable.

How about we just say, "According to so-and-so museum There is room on Wikipedia for using common sense in evaluating sources, but if the only assertions ever made about these things are that they are torture implements, then we can't ignore that completely.

Remember, we don't ultimately have to work out whether anything is true or not on Wikipedia; for cases like this, all we care about is creating a compendium of human knowledge at the current time, which may or may not match up with the truth.

I agree that the wording is poor, and the description gratuitous. However the device is regarded as an implement of torture by most works dicussing it, and this should be prominently featured in a Wikipedia article about it.

I'll update the page with some of these references other than the few discussed at the top of this page shortly. Tomyumgoong , 22 February UTC.

Unfortunately, none of the three "facts" listed above are factual. Fact 1 - Many items in museums and on Wikipedia don't have a specific place of origin or date of manufacture that's why "circa" is often part of a date , but there is absolutely no question about the intended purpose or actual use of the device.

Fact 2 - It is not conjecture, it is fact that these devices were designed and used for torture. Fact 3 - A pure fantasy on the part of the person who listed the supposed "facts".

It appears to me from the discussion on this page that a bunch of people are letting their personal distaste get in the way of reality. There is more than ample evidence of the existence and use of the vaginal and oral, and anal pear as a device of torture, cited in diverse sources.

Regarding the "three-lobed" comment above, review the various pictures available of these devices. They were made in two-, three- and four-lobed versions.

They were NOT primarily used for oral insertion, but for vaginal or anal insertion. Regarding the decoration comment above, what is your basis for claiming the decoration suggests 17th or 18th century manufacture?

Particularly in Spain, where these devices were used in the Inquisition, that sort of elaborate decoration was certainly available and being done in the 16th century.

I have read a few references in French search for "Poire d'angoisse". Got a few stories, but still no real sources.

Two interesting things:. Yeah but see. Most of us don't speak french, and this is why I'm here.

Could someone please do something about the french in the introduction of the article. The french usage in the intro concerning a quote about the fruit type choking pear and its edibility when cooked is in all french, this makes no sense to me as i'm not french and this is an english article.

If any word was elilinated which has an illogical, misleading or even absurd etymology, there wouldn't be enough left to write an avergae sentence.

That's not even an excuse. Even if it were never used by the inquisition that's unclear at this point the term was coined, whether truethfull or as a term of abuse by anti-papists, and in either case needs to be accounted for, not ignored.

As long as such things aren't wronly presneted alledgedly certainly leaves enough doubt there's no problem. By the way, I have the greatest respect for the papacy and help spread the message that he real inquisition was far better then its typical secular counterpart of contemporary in justice Fastifex , 8 June UTC.

Don't know if this argument was still going on, so I thought I'd lay it to rest. The mechanical principles it uses are simply a screw mechanism similar to a hand drill, and I really hope nobody's about to suggest the hand drill wasn't around during the medieval period.

Also, there are authentic pears on display in several museums, including in Prague and London. I have put on "original research" tag, given that there apperently still are unverifiable claims here.

Medico80 , 5 August UTC. You know to simply find the use of this instrument and to finally prove to you that is was real why not go and look up the records of people tortured.

I should have what was used on them as a sidenote. Note the dates on the above. Interestingly, the only sources I've found so far that describe this as an actual mechanism, rather than simply as a fruit that cannot be swallowed or an argument that cannot be answered, all seem to date from the 20th and 21st centuries.

I note that the Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable has a listing for choke-pear : "Robbers in Holland at one time made use of a piece of iron in the shape of a pear, which they forced into the mouth of their victim.

On turning a key, a number of springs thrust forth points of iron in all directions, so that the instrument of torture could never be taken out except by means of the key.

The only sources that claim anal or vaginal usage for the choke-pear are modern, current, websites. The sources which give the article its significance are the 17th and 19th century references to the device's use in the mouth by robbers, not the miscellany of people who are willing to speculate today on its use in the cunt by the Spanish Inquisition.

Unless you have firm sources for non-oral uses of this device, please do not insist on giving such speculation undue prominence in the article.

I feel the article has been largely re-written since the Original Research tag was put onto it, and would support removing the tag. The historical validity of the device is certainly still in question, but I don't think there is anything indicating original research by WPians present in the article.

If there are no complaints, I'll remove the template on Tuesday. I recently asked them about it, on their site, and they said that they made sure they'd gotten the facts straight.

They mentioned several times that they had seen woodcuts of the Pear in use, and that they were extremely rare for the time and nature.

Perhaps this subject is not as bogus as we think This is crazy; it's well-documented, and even if it's not historical, there's enough sources mentioning it that the article should cover them.

As for sources, the most recent OED entry for pear says. They included a vaginal pear an opening device , a chastity belt, [etc.

Times Dispatch Nexis 16 Feb. F4 One guesses that some readers may learn more than they want to about the strappado, the "pear", and the Judas chair.

I think that several people have satisfied the burden of proof that "the pear of anguish" does exist and was in fact used as a torture device.

I would recommend setting up 2 pages for this topic, one for the fruit "choke pear" and one for "pear of anguish" to differentiate the 2.

They obviously should not be on the same page. Walterwoj talk , 18 July UTC. At the moment, the situation here does not seem tenable: "Pear of anguish" redirects here, and yet the pear of anguish has been excised from this page.

Arguments like "they're a bit like chastity belts, and chastity belts never existed" will simply not fly when chastity belts not only very clearly do exist and can be bought by the bushel, they have been in use from the s.

If the pear is merely a common myth, then it needs to be addressed as such, however, nobody posting here has any evidence to counter the claims of the museums.

Whether or not it was ever truly used in the inquisition or other situations, the pear of anguish is well documented and absolutely, incontrovertibly exists: we have photographic evidence of no fewer than six [edit: seven][edit2: nine][edit3: ten] of the devices, two of them already on wikipedia, from across much of Europe.

JPG Unknown provenance. First I saw it mentioned was the torture museum in Amsterdam in the '90s, well before the Wikipedia claim.

However, it could be that the original article was made by a visitor to the torture museum: the texts appear similar. As for notability: I very much doubt anyone came here looking for an astringent fruit they'd have gone for "fig" then!

Further we have photographic evidence for at least five of these things, all in museums, all listed as torture devices, all stated to have been used in body cavity expansion, and no evidence to the contrary whatsoever.

Any claims to the contrary must therefore be regarded as "original research". Counterpoint: We have little enough evidence to claim by whom they were used, but we most certainly have enough evidence to back the fact that the things exist, and that there is a reasonable probability that their purpose was for torture.

However, I admit to being dubious myself. No other torture device I've seen has this kind of ornamentation. The teeth are somehow wrong - neither vicious enough to do serious damage, nor harsh enough to kill.

They're at the wrong angle. Could they have been culinary, perhaps to keep a roast fowl from collapsing? The teeth, when closed, would act as a spike that could serve to penetrate the fowl's skin at the neck, and allow easier insertion.

But then that argument could count for a torture device, too, I guess: you could use the spike to make your own hole wherever you wanted.

I'm just not convinced, though. Note that these things all turn up in torture museums. Maybe they're all fakes? They all seem to have similar other tools: spikey chairs, iron maidens, a rack, a pyramid to sit people on Every one is different.

But I can't put any of these doubts into the article itself, since it's all OR. And whether they're fake or not, like the crystal skulls, they exist, and thus are wikiworthy.

I've added a brief passage about the pear-as-torture-device to the page. I've aimed for a balanced writeup, but feel free to edit for extra balance.

Not sure the "also known as" line is balanced - someone complained about people calling them "Pope's Pear" above.

But complaining about it seems daft and doesn't change that people are calling it that. I do believe the page should be split, but will leave that to the vote above.

An argument to which there is no answer. Robbers in Holland at one time made use of a piece of iron in the shape of a pear, which they forced into the mouth of their victim.

This vicious instrument of torture dates back to the time of Palioly, the notorious French robber and renegade, when it was very worthily called "the pear of anguish.

It consists of a solid gag, so to speak, yet it is so constructed, with interior springs, that, once thrust into a person's mouth, it expands as fast as the mouth is opened, and rigidly distends the victim's jaws.

The more widely the victim gapes to eject the "choke pear," or to cry out for aid, the larger the hideous object becomes, until torture, suffocation and death speedily ensue.

Had this infernal device been generally available to modern criminals, Nick would have been warned by the significant words he had heard, and would have guarded himself against it.

Now, to me, both references are referring to the pear-as-gag, an entirely different thing from the key-driven examples we see in torture museums today.

Their descriptions sound more like a sprocketed, spring-driven device. Which supports the idea of a split between the two concepts I also read "A vaginal pear appears in Ken Russell's film The Devils, where it is used on an accused witch.

Would be a great ref, if true. I've watched The Devils now, and although there was one scene similar to that described, the instruments did not include a pear, so far as I could tell it was all behind a curtain, but you got to see the tray of instruments.

So we don't have any references for the screw-driven version, nor of use of the pear on any orifice other than the mouth, outside of torture museums from the '90s onwards, and sensationalist websites from the turn of the century onwards.

Admittedly, though, those are about the only places where torture is discussed, so it's not entirely surprising that it'd be there that we find the most references, even if the pear is not a new invention.

If nothing else, it might get people to post antedating refs. Maybe one of the owners of these pears has a decent history for it, for example.

However, through the design of the devices, such as metal consistency and style, these are often dated to the early modern period circa An early mention is in F.

Palioly would have used a mechanical gag to subdue a wealthy Parisian while he and his accomplices robbed the victim's home.

Further mentions of the device appear in the 19th century. They are also mentioned in Grose 's Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue as "Choke Pears", and described as aids used in extortion, "formerly used in Holland.

They were also discussed in a book by Eldridge and Watts, superintendent of police and chief inspector of the detective bureau in Boston, Massachusetts While accepting that ordinary pear-shaped gags exist, they observed that contemporary robbers used no such device as Palioly's Pear and cast doubt upon its very existence in the first place, saying that "fortunately for us this 'diabolical invention' appears to be one of the lost arts, if, indeed, it ever existed outside of de Calvi's head.

There is no doubt, however, of the fashioning of a pear-shaped gag which has been largely used in former days by robbers in Europe, and may still be employed to some extent.

This is also known as the 'choke-pear', though it is far less marvellous and dangerous than the pear of Palioly.

Another mention is found in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable , which claims that "robbers in Holland at one time made use of a piece of iron in the shape of a pear, which they forced into the mouth of their victim.

On turning a key, a number of springs thrust forth points of iron in all directions, so that the instrument of torture could never be taken out except by means of the key.

As derived from its name, the mechanism of this contraption was originally meant to be inserted to one's mouth to crank the key piece to expand the metallic petals.

The quadruple or triple petals expand outward, forcing the victim's inner mouth capacity to stretch beyond its limits.

Chris Bishop of Australian National University argues the construction of the oldest indicates it sprang open and the workmanship exceeds that expected from a torture device.

Furthermore, the provenance of many of the devices is unknown and the workmanship indicates they are likely of recent manufacture, and the accounts of its use are not contemporary with the Middle Ages , making the accounts suspect.

Though there is little or no evidence of its being used by bandits, there are a number of extant examples of ornate and elaborate, pear-shaped devices with three or four leaves or lobes, driven by turning a key that rotates the central screw thread, which spreads the leaves.

These are generally held in museums devoted to the subject of torture, and are described as instruments of torture by distension or evisceration.

Some, but not all, have small spikes of uncertain purpose at the bottom of each leaf. However, these devices do not seem to match the descriptions given by Calvi or the 19th century sources.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Redirected from Choke pear torture. La France pittoresque in French Winter —

The pear of anguish in use

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